I have decided to finish listening to the Paul and Gene debate and finish commenting on it. I will post my first two portions then start on the rest.


I was commenting as I listened to the debate. so here is the first part.



Well, I have listened to the first few things Gene said and He starts off on a bad foot in my estimation. He stated that Baptism is one of the doctrines that wasn't reformed. And that in itself is a major misunderstanding on the Baptist side I believe. I use to think this also. They reformed the doctrine and not the application of the practice in my estimation. IN fact many Reformed guys still accept RC baptism as authentic. CT paedo Baptism is not pagan Roman Baptism though. It is based upon a Covenant Family understanding and not as a sacrament that merits anything..



Another misgiving of Gene's is that Paedo baptism is just a Roman teaching. It was mentioned a few centuries after the Resurrection of Christ. And it was done because there was so close of a tie between it and the forgiveness of sin that one dare not leave earth or allow their children to die without it. So it started based upon the necessity of the individual who might die in infancy at first. This is discussed in a book called Baptism in the Early Church. And it is done by Paedo Baptists. The doctrine was not started based upon Covenant Theology if my understanding is correct.
http://www.amazon.com/Baptism-Early-.../dp/0952791315

Infant Baptism is not the unreformed Doctrine of the Reformation. It is reformed from the Catholic understanding. Gene starts off with a few Bad Premises in my opinion. And I would have taken him to task just for that.



I do agree with Gene that our differences are based upon the nature of the New Covenant. And he seems to do a pretty good job of explaning its nature.



I wouldn't have used the nature of the covenants only to explain the differences between Baptism and circumcision.. I believe the new does explain the old as progressive revelation but the natures of circumcision and baptism are different in more than one way. It isn't just in types and shadows. Circumcision is a sign and seal unto the Messiah. But it also includes a sign and seal that is bound up in promises that are national and not spiritual also. Rich Lieno and I discuss this here. Case for Believers Baptism.  believe that Baptism is a sign but that the Holy Spirit is the seal in the New Covenant. Baptism is a sign of forgiveness of sin which only applies to those who are New Covenant members.